SPEAKER_01: 0:49

You know that the work that we try is special, you still have to get the salved, because it's a question of justice that the program LaVoz of the Lunes and June, with gentlemen of prime nivel, the prime nivel in the economy, the prime nivel in the literature, the prime nivel in the analysis psychological, but this program of the Viernes has an entrevista very special. In occasions, we are talking of gentlemen who is conocida in all the planet. Son personas conocidas universalmente. A veces es gente que es solo conocida dentro de su país, pero que nos parece gente extraordinaria, que tiene que ser conocida más allá. Ahí tenemos el peruano que queremos que conozcan en Argentina, o ese argentino que conozcan también en México, o ese mexicano que deseamos que conozcan también en España, o ese español que queremos que conozcan en Colombia. Hablamos de gente que nos parece que tiene una historia interesante, extraordinaria desde muchos puntos de vista y que tiene que conocerse más allá de los límites de su país de origen. Y en ocasiones también nos encontramos con gente extraordinaria que ni siquiera es conocida en la totalidad de su país, quizás solo en una región, quizás solo en una ciudad. Pero la labor que desarrolla es tan importante que merece la pena que ese conocimiento sea universal. Nuestra invitada de esta noche es una persona con una terrible, pavorosa, verdaderamente escalofriante experiencia, y al mismo tiempo es una persona a la que esa experiencia no ha quebrado, a la que no ha laminado, a la que no ha aplastado, sino que por el contrario da la sensación de que ha contribuido a que luego haya continuado siendo un activista y un activista por causas nobles. Yo diría que con una capacidad de resistencia, con una capacidad de enfrentarse a las difíciles situaciones, con una capacidad de continuar luchando ciertamente notable. Les estoy hablando de Leslie Cali. Leslie, muy bienvenida, muy buenas noches.

SPEAKER_02: 3:20

César, muchas gracias por la invitación. De verdad que cuando me abordas, para mí es un honor estar en este programa con tan alta, alta, alta audiencia y alta estima de los oyentes. Hacia ti, gracias de verdad por la oportunidad. Buenas noches a todos los que nos están escuchando también.

SPEAKER_01: 3:40

Leslie, si te parece, vamos a empezar hablando de tu experiencia vital partiendo de una fecha muy concreta, que es el 12 de abril de 1999, fecha a la que tú te has referido en multitud de ocasiones, que incluso ha dado lugar a un libro más que notable. ¿Quién era Leslie Kali ese 12 de abril?

SPEAKER_02: 4:04

Leslie Kali era a mujer ofeurs, acababa de terminar, 18 years, and the experience of a kibbutz in Israel to the English and agricultural with multiple cultures. I recuered that my father this year was a pilot, and he didn't know that I was so. I said, No, he had an apartment in Cartagena, and I proposed to me to Cartagena, stay a time in Cartagena, but not so much of the pain. And I think my friend, who is a person who was in the notifications, said Israel there are secure air, there are bombardments, they are in a guerrey constant. I can go to Israel, I don't know if I'm at the airport, and coming to the airport, my papa insisting no, no, no, and one escuched the juvent. Insist in this, we were the ultimate passenger town, but my father had this pilot of Bianca, but this year he was with this. My wife said that one doesn't work the ultimate. I don't know, but we're with it. Every day in the airport the controls of security function, there was a detector of metal, there was absolutely nothing. And I started with my mother who gave the airport, my father and me, and we started in a cafeteria, and I recuered that one of the friends who was in front of the other message a periodic that he had in the mess and a commentary about a notice that had happened, I reckon. The other person said, Oh, we need a periodic, it was in other occasions. This period and I said to my mother in form of burglar, I said, This is a ex-none. And the carcass, and when I was the bell, the daughter the ultimate, but my father said, I'm not, because this will be. And when I was the people who are an example of my mother with a car, it was one of the sequestrators of the paper in this moment. I said, 'Nena, don't send you a little bit of a because I'm going to sent me with a company of a ball that's okay.' You put the revista of the centural, the normal. And after they're the security, for that, or something. In this moment, in which it's a part of the format. And you wanted to go, and it's a fraction of seconds, and I feel like I said, Why is it possible that this has been? And with the other hand, a revolver that is the auxiliary that is in the jumpsators of the cards of angustia, and in this moment they are other person of us, and in the middle of the other and other, and those embedded to the arms of the arms, of the maletas, and they empezed to cover the roads with montagnes. I saw in the people, but no, the other person in the cabina. The next went for the cabina. In this moment, one of those who were in the avion told the voice. My voice would be altered because I altered a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 9:49

Naturally.

SPEAKER_02: 11:08

But the idea of this was to buy. But I said, No, I have to buy my dollars because I'm going to go back to dollars. So this will be. Exactly. I wanted to go my dinner in my bols and my passport. The avion at the front and mean, and I said, I said the homie who is alone, I'm listening to me. I said, and I said, Okay, I'm going to go, and the people who had the voice, I said, No, that you send and regain me because I was mirroring. And then obviously instructions, I'm the avion, I'm going to see you by the ventana of the avion that the avion empied to descend very rapid, and the copas of the árboles empied to the avion. I said, Well, in quick moment, we're going to explode those. At the end, they abre the pure and entrap a colour bochornoso, infernal Magdalena Medio, which is like a temperature of 40 graphs centigrade. And anybody abrazed with the who has the vocery. My papa in the middle of the middle, you salary, empezame, my paper, what is this? My papa said, No giveaway, no, it's and when we were in the page, there's a camera that we registrate, a camera of video that is registrar to all the people. The river was like a river, it was like pantanas, the river at the almost. I made the passport, we made the dollars, we made the ball.

SPEAKER_01: 15:39

After selva, we're simply of vegetation luxuriante, of árboles grandes. Are we talking about a pantano in which the air was hasta el pecho?

SPEAKER_02: 15:53

Hasta el pecho, yeah. And in this pantano, because it was a vertiente del Magdalena, the Magdalena is the second river of Colombia. The first is the Amazonas, the second is the Magdalena, which traveled all the place, and this was a river, and I was the Chalup Johnson, which are those grand. But we were like two hours in those. I assumed that I was a radio. And I did not, I went, I went and I was watching the notifications in that moment that there had an disappearing. And when there's an avion disappeared, is that it came. That's what I think the people. And I said, My mother will replace this, my family is a gap for my family, my father and my mother, and you say that we are vivid, but simply the person, but we are vivid. And I wanted to say, but what happened? What happened? Because the wheel of Bogotá, I got a wheel to Madrid that six of the day, and Madrid at Tel Avid. And I saw my thousand, but today you can go to the water to Madrid. I said, What do you want to go to Bogotá? And my father for the first time, like in his life, I saw it brute, okay? Don't you know? And I have the idea that we send minimum in six months. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01: 19:38

Madre mía, okay, my father was consciente that the sequence, but it was a sequence that I was.

SPEAKER_02: 19:47

This year, my father is a person intelligent, very analytical. And he said, This operative is for one year, this operative is minimum six months. We won't negotiate what we want, a lot of what they do, because they don't know what we are and we don't have to come. So if you sir, I don't want to go back to remind you in the house that I know, I don't know. This is my father, and I was like, If you don't come, you don't have to come, and we're the two. And it was, because there were days in the command. But the experience of this moments very crude, it's a reality that one is prepared, but the capacity and the human and the mentee are so maravillos that they're fucking a brava. The gentleman says, No, I'm not gonna vivid this, I mean. No, the mentee human has an instinct of supervivency that really active in conditions when no more.

SPEAKER_01: 21:32

Well, continue with the relation, ya left.

SPEAKER_02: 21:38

I think that in the avioned that they were a commandant of the AUC. AUC are the people of Colombia who were the paramilitaries, so the who had the money with the ejercit in one occasion, and these groups created in Colombia because the guerrillas had the gas, they got fincashed and extortions ability to the campesin, and the ejercity absolutely not. But there was in Colombia. There are zones where no. Estos criminales mataban un mico y era asqueroso y se lo comían. Son seres sin corazón. A veces llegaba, no sé, tal vez algún campesino le quitaba una vaca and. I recuerda que a un cerdito que yo tuve la persona or the maldición to encariñar me con el animal, and you create. And the cerdic were animals very intelligent. And we had a number, and the cerdo dormía with me, and se volvió a I think desperate of the animal and correct where he was, and they were matched with a destornillador. But the destornillador in the corner, my animal sort of correct, desesper to those parts.

SPEAKER_01: 31:07

And no, no, clearly, this is a very good thing.

SPEAKER_02: 31:33

I was seven years in the cara sort of, with vómic, no sé qué sería this animal because he was in the self. But of all I heard, I had a cule, I piccared, no me happened, mascotas in my combuche, but this gusano today lo accuracy and mean escalofríos.

SPEAKER_01: 32:00

Estamos hablando de un panorama that is angustioso, in terms of salute, in terms of alimentación, in terms of higiene.

SPEAKER_02: 32:29

No, in enero empezó a insortable the situation. And sometimes to me, I don't know, because you were the only person in my group. And I try to get me to level the animal when I was and I saw the command and portion more of arrows or what. In this episode, I wonder that the ejercity was very, and they said that if the ejercity, the company of Cautiveria decided that if the ejercity, this will matter. They are the noses for each culture to the ejercity. Imagine that they're saying our companies that if the ejercity, what? I said, who was all the days back to the animal? If you did the order to disparage me to me, and again the case and orders and orders. But this was the time, the ultimate two semanas were an infierno for us because they were negotiating the casual of us, my paper and the mean, and extortion and dollars, it were more than in this episode$600,000.

SPEAKER_01: 35:00

What barbarity, what barbarity for you?

SPEAKER_02: 35:09

And in Colombia, when a person is secure, the cuent of transactions grand, no se pueden vender propiedades, no se pueden vender cosas que están en nombre de la persona, porque lo hace el secuestro initial in Colombia that they created political bancaries for that there were transactions of dinner for no dinner to the people. It's absurd. And negotiation with the others. And I recuered that they had the notification that we were going to liberate in the semana mayor, and they approve and said, No, the command central decided that you can get and your papa will be. I marry for that. You go, no, I'm gonna get to me. And I was at the 20th, entered the combuche and no, no, I accepted, they're macabre, it was a person who was macabre, to me, and they go. And César is one of the people at the Petro, el presidente de Colombia, el ampón que tenemos de presidente, evitó su extradición a una corte federal a los Estados Unidos por narcotráfico.

SPEAKER_01: 37:02

Bueno, vamos a ver. Durante el tiempo de cautiverio, ¿sufrieron adoctrinamiento, o por lo menos les evitaban el tener que adoctrinar?

SPEAKER_02: 37:14

No, nunca nos adoctrinaron. Nunca.

SPEAKER_01: 37:19

Bueno, por lo menos hay un aspecto que no fue tan negativo. ¿Y cómo mantenían la moral cuando vas viendo que pasan los días primero y luego pasan las semanas y luego pasan los meses y no sales de allí, y en un momento determinado, en el caso de usted y de su padre, llegaron a pasar el año de cautividad?

SPEAKER_02: 37:41

Hay una cosa que yo se la dije a un locutor que aquí hice mucho, who se llama Ervin Hoyos. Yo le dije, Ervin, usted a través of the program of radio for the people who were secure, the only way is that. The radio was for us the cordon umbilical, what we had with a simple radio, because we started all the day trying to escule notices and how the negotiations were with the government. So this one of these I saw an emission and I made a car to my mother of the cruise roja, and she sent a favor to the church that was Juan Carlos, and my mother from the self in a whole point of the day. And I was all the days Juan Carlos had the generosity of my mother a minute, a minute, César, for other family doing feelings, and I don't know the program to the family of the sequestrated, and Irving created the program for that family connect with people who were in the self. The radio has made the radio. Not enough, but I think that I have an helicopter, and if I escuch three times a day, I hope. This was the José María Ballesta, who listened the piloto, the aeropilot, the who secure the no, you know that this guy, I think this is the who exnovia of my mother, and decided to publicly use justice. What error? No, Cesar, this was another episode of the time that I live.

SPEAKER_01: 47:52

No, no, no, I have no idea, aunque desgraciadly that it's the only place miserable for the victims.

SPEAKER_02: 48:01

No, César, but find this. Others always have low ranges have in X, and I received insult to them in X, but Antonio Garcia has proposed in three occasions and X and I said, but totally context. In this epoch, César and I had relations sexually with nothing, I had relations sexually at my 22 years. In this episode I was.

SPEAKER_01: 54:18

No digo que sea al 100% imposible, pero efectivamente se ha producido un entretejido tal de intereses delictivos que hace que esa posibilidad realmente sea muy cercana a lo inalcanzable. Me gustaría decir lo contrario, me gustaría decir que estás equivocada, Leslie. O sea, eso no es.

SPEAKER_02: 54:39

No, es que permearon el Congreso, permearon la Procuraduría, permearon la Fiscalía General of the Nation, the centers of control in the Corte Constitutional. It's impossible. Colombia has been a pay corruption, but they manage in certain proportions. But they are desbording, disparados. And if you say César, I will have a million dollars, but I arregles this result, and you receive a salt that is$100, but the people say, No, you agree a million dollars and what happens with the pain. We'll talk about much in Colombia, which are impossible to explicit. And this is the person who will president the other a year if you don't manage it.

SPEAKER_01: 55:44

Insist, me gustaría Leslie, it's equivocated, is in an error, but the exact vision of what is succumbed.

SPEAKER_02: 56:16

Ivan Colombia. Petro is the Colombia and the region.

SPEAKER_01: 57:05

Le dedicaba el libro, siempre le hacía la advertencia de que no estaba obligada a leerlo, pero esto en el ciberespacio es imposible. Y entonces siempre dejó una canción, una pieza musical, alguna composición a la persona que, como es su caso, ha sido tan amable y tan generosa con su tiempo para con nosotros. Y en su caso he escogido una obertura de una película que se titula Precisamente Secuestrado, Kidnap, que es una película basada en una de las novelas clásicas de Robert Louis Stevenson. Y le voy a dejar con esa pieza musical. Y por supuesto, le agradezco muchísimo este tiempo que ha pasado con nosotros. Creo que es un testimonio ciertamente extraordinario. Y además, creo que es un testimonio que, desgraciadamente, sigue siendo muy necesario, sigue siendo muy actual, sigue siendo muy aleccionador. Muchísimas gracias por eso. César.

SPEAKER_02: 58:01

César, antes de despedirme, yo sí quisiera enviarte mis dos libros, el que escribí sobre Petro y el que escribí mi diario en el Secuestro.

SPEAKER_01: 58:12

Pues hablamos ahora después de la entrevista y por supuesto que solucionamos eso. Un abrazo muy fuerte. Vale, un abrazo. Y con estos compases del tema principal de la película Kidnap Secuestrado, basada en la magnífica novela de Robert Louis Stevenson, hemos llegado nosotros al final de nuestra singladura de hoy del programa La Voz. Esperamos que lo hayan pasado bien, que se hayan entretenido, que incluso hayan aprendido una o dos cosillas que les puedan ser de interés y de utilidad. Y por supuesto, los emplazamos para el lunes de la semana que viene, Dios mediante, en el mismo lugar y a la misma hora. Y hasta entonces, como siempre, nos despedimos con una despedida sureña. God Blessia. Que Dios los bendiga.

SPEAKER_02: 59:02

El programa La Voz es una producción de Artorius Inc. y al amparo del derecho a la libertad de expresión. No se hace responsable de las opiniones vertidas en el curso del mismo.